人生切割术 第一季

活动地址：https://viff.org/whats-on/severance-talk/

访问这个网站后注册一个账户就可以购买这个采访录像，费用是 0 元，只填写有效的邮箱信息即可，下单成功后不久邮箱会收到一个播放地址，然后就可以观看这个采访录像。这个采访录像是经过 DRM 加密的，非常不容易下载（反正我没成功），而且有一定的有效期限（5 月 23 日之前有效），所以购买完毕后要尽快抽时间看完。

我从网站上下载到了这个采访的英文字幕，按照采访的格式重新整理了一遍，发到这里。英文字幕应该是机器识别+人工校对实现的，大体上没问题，时不时会出现一些小错误。

访谈录音：May 9, 2022 - VIFF Creator Talk, Severance.mp3

Kinga Binkowska

👩Kinga Binkowska: Good evening, everyone. And thank you for joining us. My name is Kinga Binkowska and I'm industry and live producer here at the Vancouver International Film Festival. I would like to start by giving thanks to the Musqueam, Squamish and Tsleil-Waututh Nations for the continued stewardship of the unceded, unoccupied land on which we live and work.

From creators and showrunners to directors, writers, producers and craft people, the VIFF Talk series draws from a fine and creative group of key creators, whether they're responsible for critically acclaimed films, or groundbreaking TV series, our guests provide a treasure trove of information and inspiration for fellow creators, filmmakers, industry professionals, and of course, the fans.

Right at 98% Fresh on Rotten Tomatoes, Apple TV+ Severance is one of the most acclaimed new shows of this year. Already greenlit for a second season, this mind and genre bending Series offers a heavy mix of sci fi, "dramedy", conspiracy, mystery and psychological thriller as it investigates the concept of work life balance in a speculative realm in which office workers personal and professional experiences are really siloed.

We're thrilled to chat with creator Dan Erickson, whose inventive series features and unique and brilliant script, sublime direction by Ben Stiller and incredible casting highlighted by Adam Scott's note perfect centre performance and Christopher Walken biggest role on the small screen.

Our hosts for this evening is Duana Taha, writer and producer. Welcome Dan and Duana!

Dan Erickson & Duana Taha

👩🏻Duana Taha: Hi there, I'm Duana Taha, I am thrilled to be in conversation with Dan Erickson, courtesy of VIFF. A little intro for those of you who don't know, Dan Erickson began writing plays and making movies with his siblings and friends at a young age and went on to get his BA in English and creative writing from Western Washington University. He later attended NYU Tisch School, where he received a Masters in Dramatic Writing. Upon moving to LA, Dan delivered food and worked in string of office jobs, all while conceiving and writing the original pilot for Severance. The script became the first TV pilot ever selected for the annual bloodlist, which ultimately led to a creative partnership with Red Arrow productions, Endeavor Content and Apple. Dan splits his time between LA and New York while sneaking back to his beloved Washington State every chance he gets. The creator of Severance, please welcome Dan Erickson.

🧔🏻‍♂️Dan Erickson: Hi Duana, How are you?

👩🏻Duana Taha: I am pretty good. Thank you so much for coming and speaking with us. There is so much to chat about.

🧔🏻‍♂️Dan Erickson: It's so good to be here.

👩🏻Duana Taha: Very excited. I asked you just before we began, which question you've been asked most often, and you said, you know, there was a lot about where did this idea come from? I don't have that question. Because I can imagine that, having worked one or many, many terrible jobs or jobs that thought they were pretty cute and great, fine. My question to you is, do the people at your real life Lumon know that they're the inspiration for Lumon? Are you getting DM's from everybody in your life going? It was us, wasn't it? Come on!

🧔🏻‍♂️Dan Erickson: Oh, God. I hope not. No, I have gotten DM's from I haven't gotten DM's from any of the bad guys. I'll say that. And any of the mysterious higher ups represented on the show. I have gotten DM's from former co-workers and people who have sort of been in those particular trenches with me. And those have mostly been appreciative. Yeah.

👩🏻Duana Taha: But they recognize that some of your jokes and references are just for that. Yeah?

🧔🏻‍♂️Dan Erickson: Yeah. Ya no, for sure, and it's all stuff I'm grateful for now, but, you know, little, just weird corporate idiosyncrasies that I collected along the way, you know, the people who I knew from those worlds will reach out and be like: Hey, I recognize that.

👩🏻Duana Taha: You know, there's a kind of an obvious sentiment that the show might resonate with anybody who's ever been in kind of a terrible workplace dystopia? Was there anything that you actually had to explain to the showbiz world of Los Angeles? That yes, this is a real thing, or yes, this is a reference that people make?

🧔🏻‍♂️Dan Erickson: Yeah, I mean, a lot. A lot of the people, you know, who were producing the show, or who were working on the show had their own experience in those kinds of jobs, some of it years ago, some of it more recently. But there was some stuff like sort of the core principles and the slightly culty elements of the corporate world where I'm like, No, this is real, like. I basically didn't exaggerate that at all. The core principles are actually a less ridiculous version of something I really encountered at one of the jobs where there was just these themed principles, that didn't really make any sense. And they sent somebody around, someone came from the national office, and they came around to introduce the principles to us and the trip, I'm sure, cost hundreds of thousands of dollars. You know, it's all stuff that if you're wanting to be a creative person, and eventually turn this into a story, you're just sort of putting all that in your pocket as you go along.

👩🏻Duana Taha: If I understood you correctly, you're saying that, you toned everything down for Lumon?

🧔🏻‍♂️Dan Erickson: Not everything, but some things.

👩🏻Duana Taha: That's terrifying enough to be going on. I think that overall, it's very clear that this is coming from a couple of different pin points, including, you're speaking largely to a Canadian audience here, though, that we have many climates or this vast country, I in the East don't think we've ever seen winter portrayed more honestly, or brutally on screen. Was that important? Was that a real choice? How did that go down?

🧔🏻‍♂️Dan Erickson: Yeah, I mean, we did say we were like, If we get this wrong, the Canadians are going to come for us. They're going to know that we faked it. I am honestly really happy to hear you say that, because that was one of the hardest elements of this thing. Like really green writer, I'd never actually been in a writers room before. And so I had certainly never had to go out and be on a shoot, and sort of live the reality of the things I was writing before. So I would just very willy nilly be like, Okay, let's do another nighttime scene in the snow. And, you know, not realizing A) that that's always a nightmare to have to make that happen, you know, on any shoot, and B) that Ben Stiller is the most meticulous person in the world and is not going to do anything halfway, and so, you know, he and Aoife McArdle, our other director, they were very adamant that those seem do feel real, and that we shoot them out somewhere very cold at night. And so we had a great crew that were great. It was tough.

👩🏻Duana Taha: And you started thinking about ways that move on, suddenly could have like, a climate control over the town in second season, I assume?

🧔🏻‍♂️Dan Erickson: Yes. Yeah. I don't know. I mean, they probably have an office in Phoenix or somewhere a little bit more warm.

👩🏻Duana Taha: Well, speaking of, let's get into it, then. Let's talk about the specificities of Lumon. You know, this show has more than most developed an incredible number of fan theories. What is your process of that? Are you engaging with them? Are you laughing at them? Do you have to avoid them? Like, what's your sort of take on that?

🧔🏻‍♂️Dan Erickson: Yeah, I was, I was told right off the bat to avoid Reddit, because they're like, it will poison your brain, like you're gonna get totally in your head. It's going to become this weird feedback loop. That's going to drop, you know, drive you into the mouth of madness. And so I for about 10 minutes didn't go on Reddit. And then I caved, and I went once and I was surprised, cautiously surprised and delighted to find that it was this just wonderful, positive, delightful community of people who were just really excited about the show and it wasn't just a lot of people who made for various things I was like, Oh, this response is actually really positive. And it's just, it's sort of inspiring, because, you know, it's all this brand new art that's being created. And then the theories, which are, there are always some that are outlandish, but it's an outlandish show. So like, I sort of don't blame anybody for that. But then yeah, a lot of it is stuff that's really smart, and, in some cases, stuff where I'm like, Could I could I use that when I get in trouble if I just did that?

👩🏻Duana Taha: How close is this? Versus how can I obfuscate it?

🧔🏻‍♂️Dan Erickson: But it's great. It's a great community. And it's really fun to to watch them do their thing.

👩🏻Duana Taha: That's how you know when people are that engaged in that kind of a cypress about what they think is the truth. The one I see coming up most often is what's the real deal with the scary numbers in macro data refinement? And so my question to you is, I'm assuming you're not going to tell us what is really the deal. So what is your favorite incorrect assumption about what it might be?

🧔🏻‍♂️Dan Erickson: Oh, boy, let's see. I'm trying to think because there have been a lot of really good ones. I'm trying to think if there's one that I want to admit is incorrect. I mean, definitely, a lot of people have have sort of assumed that it's kind of the first thing you would expect, which is some kind of like data mining or something like that. People's private records, which is, it may well be something like that. But I will say that when we were figuring out what the numbers are, that was sort of one of the first things that we thought, and it became this thing of like, what can we do that's either different or some kind of an elevation of that. So all I'll say is that I hope that it's something that people will be surprised by, I hope it's something that will feel both like it makes sense looking back, but that it also is a little bit counterintuitive. It's kind of what happens there.

👩🏻Duana Taha: And one hopes that the truth will in some way align with Lumon's nine values. Let me say that for the audience, and I'll be watching to see if Dan malsum along with me, we have vision, verb, wit, cheer, humility, benevolence, nimbleness, probity, and wiles.

🧔🏻‍♂️Dan Erickson: Yeah. I had to listen to you say, at first on a couple of the middle, but I got there by the end.

👩🏻Duana Taha: I consider myself pretty well read, but I still had to Google probity to make sure I was interpreting it correctly.

🧔🏻‍♂️Dan Erickson: I forget what it means. What does it mean?

👩🏻Duana Taha: Let's say, you know, we'll have some research and bring that back later in the talk, you know, make sure we both internalize it. So I'm sure that those were, as you say, much debated and or that some went in and some some came out in terms of the final line when you were debating them. But I was shocked to find out that Lumon had a dress code. So I guess, first of all, the immediate question is, the dress code is black, white, maybe gray and pastels. As if you weren't already depressed, you're allowed to have pastels, at Lumon. How much of this do you expect that the characters themselves sort of taken on day one? Or are these things that have kind of been policed among the Lumon employees over time and become kind of facts and rules? Are there distinctions between some of the things that we hear?

🧔🏻‍♂️Dan Erickson: Yeah, I think so. And by the way, just just real quick, I looked it up probity, the quality of having strong moral principles, honesty and decency. So I think part of that is dressing right. Yeah, I mean, the dress code is a funny thing specifically because I think it is as it is, in real life, sort of a way of policing the way people express themselves and sort of the level of your own humanity that you're allowed to bring into the into the workplace and your individuality. But then, I think it is probably also artificially policed in Unit even more by the company itself. Where Yeah, like They probably are not, you know, there's a color scheme. But the other the other thing that we talked about that hasn't really come into play much in the show yet, is that it would all have to be closed without any sort of label or writing because it has to get through the code detectors, because, you know, any sort of written symbols whatsoever won't go. And so, you know, we've talked about is there, how there may be like a severance-friendly clothing stores, like where if you're, if you're working a separate job, there's a specific store you can go to that has stuck with no writing whatsoever. But yeah, that's all. You know, that's stuff that would have to be explained to the "outtie", whereas most of the actual in office behavior stuff would be explained to the "innie", and I imagine on both sides, it's a bit of an education, it takes a while to sort of, you know, we see Helly we sort of clumsily bumping up against the rules. And I think that's something that probably happens for all of them.

👩🏻Duana Taha: Quite often. Yeah. And you've answered a few questions there in the sense that, obviously, we know that there's enough of a enough of a severed population, that there's also anti-Lumon sentiment and anti-severance kind of movements, and clearly a need for retail locations. So I guess, within the world of the show, what is your kind of estimate of how many people were talking about less as a number and more as a, is, does it approximate a percentage point? Is it you know, is it a part of a given town only or? Because, you bring up a lot of questions there.

🧔🏻‍♂️Dan Erickson: Right, right, right. It's a really, really good question. I actually have never been asked that before, and I want to make sure that I don't get, you know, the Apple dart in my neck.

👩🏻Duana Taha: Yes, this is kind of an occupational hazard for you throughout this whole talk. Right?

🧔🏻‍♂️Dan Erickson: Yeah, they're standing at the door with the blow dart thing. it's really overkill, in my opinion. But yeah, I think it's less than a percentage at this point. It's in the culture, it's like, you know, we see that it's something people are discussing at dinner parties or not dinner parties. And they're, you know, it's something that is debated, and is probably, you know, they're think pieces all over the internet about it and that kind of thing. But I think at this point, it's still very rare. There are other severed offices, there are other Lumon severed offices around the world, in various places. But like, for example, there are states where it's not legal for you, and there are others where it is. So you know, there's all a lot of that a lot of that is sort of world building stuff that we haven't even really gotten into on screen yet. But I think that's one of the most interesting parts, especially, if we do expand a little more into other parts of the "outie" world moving ahead, it's a deep sci-fi versus Armageddon sci-fi where I always think it's really interesting, when you're looking at how it would affect the culture in a society, which is Deep Impact, by the way.

👩🏻Duana Taha: Clearly, and don't, obviously, but yes, if you had to choose. And you confirmed something that I wasn't sure was, an actual narrative fact as opposed to a line for Mark. He's so earnest when he tells Helly about the code detectors, that I wasn't sure whether that was an immutably true fact or something that he had been told and digested, you know, but I appreciate A) that, that he pointed it out and B) that he knew what she was going to do with head cap because it took I think, is a little bit longer.

🧔🏻‍♂️Dan Erickson: Yeah, well, he's, he's speaking from experience.

👩🏻Duana Taha: Yeah. Well, okay. I love this. And, I'm excited to get further into, that part of things. But I should have said this at the beginning, but clearly, to the degree that you are able to answer questions spoilers abound, from this point forward. But one of the things that I found so interesting is that when the show begins, the name Mark. S is so generic, with all respect to the wonderful Adam Scott, but the name is so generic that you sort of glaze over it right away. The name Helly on the other hand, pretty rare. I don't know if I've ever known a Helly? Have you? And was it intentional to kind of keep that nod to her birth name? Or, like, because I know you've lived with this script for a while, so I wasn't sure if that was something that you always wanted to be the case.

🧔🏻‍♂️Dan Erickson: Right, right. I, it's funny, I was trying to remember this recently, and I honestly don't remember exactly where the name Helly came from. I think it had, you know, sometimes I'll do like a late night, like name search Google binge thing, and just like, find something, it's like, Oh, this means blank in this language. So there's those get, and then I'll forget the next day why I picked it. So that that may have happened a little bit, but I think it did have something to do with the, it's almost shortening of the word Helly and a bit and conscious or otherwise, is the fact that the name sort of stirs up this, idea of of raising hell and, appending things. So I think, but then Yeah, it did become. It wasn't until later that we actually concede that this turn that of her being an Eagan. And so then, you know, it's sort of that was sort of a happy accident, where it's like, her name almost feels incomplete. Like we're waiting to hear the other side. The other part of it, you know, waiting to find out who she really is. So I think it all it all worked out.

👩🏻Duana Taha: Yeah, it definitely has sort of the air of anticipation in a way that a Dylan or an Irv doesn't. So yeah, definitely. That hit.

🧔🏻‍♂️Dan Erickson: Well, and Mark was also that's the only character that's based on that this named after a real person because that character is named after my dad. So, yeah.

👩🏻Duana Taha: Shout out to Mark. Okay

🧔🏻‍♂️Dan Erickson: Shout out to Mark Erickson. Yeah. A very hardworking person who I thought deserved to have a character named after him. But I feel bad because of all the terrible things that Mark ends up being put through.

👩🏻Duana Taha: Yeah, did he have a real kind of relationship with him once he saw him on screen.

🧔🏻‍♂️Dan Erickson: I don't know if sharing a name made them feel an immediate bond or not. But yeah, I don't know. It was it was something it was funny in the writing process being like, okay, and then this next, Mark witnesses a murder? And I'm like, Oh, sorry, dad.

👩🏻Duana Taha: Here we go again. Yeah, this episode.

🧔🏻‍♂️Dan Erickson: Yeah.

👩🏻Duana Taha: Yeah, here we are. So you mentioned this was your first writing room? If I understood you correctly, is that right?

🧔🏻‍♂️Dan Erickson: Yeah.

👩🏻Duana Taha: What, what was the most surprising thing that you went up going 18 Browns over? You know that? Well, I guess I should back up and ask you what was essential to be a writer in the Severance room? What were you looking for? What? What was sort of the quality that that meant to you? Yeah, this is somebody who's going to play well, in this sandbox.

🧔🏻‍♂️Dan Erickson: It was how was it tricky. It felt like a very narrow line to hit, you know, because it is a very specific tone. But you know, we wanted people who were funny, we knew that a lot of the language of the show is told through humor. And so I think that was a really important, whether or not, they were overtly comedic scripts, we wanted people who had that sort of ride, you know, even at times absurdist humor to their voice. But at the same time, I mean, we were creating such a world from scratch that we needed, people who knew were going to be good at that. And so we looked at, you know, really, people from really cool sci-fi shows that we liked and ultimately, though, it came down to every just everybody's sample and, you know, whether it was a play or, a pilot or, you know, whatever else a feature. It just had to be sort of an initial something at a click when we were reading it and make it and make us think, yeah, that's, they could they could operate in this in this world.

👩🏻Duana Taha: And then so once you've assembled your sort of team of covert, covert, hilarious, world builders, yeah, were there big debates that were sort of constants that came up over and over again, or things that are fun activities. You know, when I think about the the euphemisms around, say, a wellness check, or the break room, I feel like that's kind of a writers room activity that might have gone on for for a long time, you know, the euphemism of what is HR, what is the commissary?

🧔🏻‍♂️Dan Erickson: No, it was fun. I mean, there was a lot, I wouldn't say that there was any. There wasn't much fighting or discord, we were all, I think, pretty much of the same mind on most of the stuff. But there were a lot of really fun debates. We talked about, like, Miss Casey in particular that that character, who, again, spoiler alert, we had to create a character that was sort of an important character hidden in plain sight, where, you know, by the time you realize who she actually is, and her relationship to Mark, you're, you're looking back and you're like, Oh, God, how did I miss that, and you're in a character, that seemed like they could exist, it's just kind of a funny, quirky side character. And we would accept her is that enough that we don't suspect there have been the other thing. And so there was like, at one point, she was gonna be this like, weird sort of traveling vendor, like selling things between departments. And there were a lot of sort of kooky different iterations of that character. And we just had a really good time. You know, improvising, and coming up with other other ways that we can portray her. And then the other thing that comes to mind is, so when Helly puts the, let me out on our arms, we had a lot of discussion about, like, how that would work, like, and at one point, it was like, we were all writing in pen on our fingers. And we were like, would she do it this way? You know, when she sort of tried to write it across the knuckles, but then we're like, no, because then the individual letter would still, so she'd have to cut up the letters. So maybe something like this. So there's a whole bunch of photos of from that time of just us various awkward, you know, appendages with with Sharpie writing on them.

👩🏻Duana Taha: I'll be trying to get at that during the clip, of course, just try to write on my arm and see if I can manage it. There is I have one question about Ms. Casey. Before we get there, although we'll have many. My impression of her the way she ended up was that the the the name Miss Casey, when everybody else is used, as a first name implies almost like a, like a Romper Room kind of character or kindergarten teacher, you know, Miss Angela, or Miss Stephanie, somebody who is benevolently able to see everybody at all times. I don't know if that was sort of the the intent when she was, a traveling vendor as well? But definitely that separation and that sort of honorific that she has gave her that extra element.

🧔🏻‍♂️Dan Erickson: Yeah, no, I it's funny. I think she did have a different name back when she was like a traveling vendor. But yeah, she, the name Miss Casey was sort of supposed to invoke that off the bat. But then also, in hindsight, it is. It's like, almost the melding of a first name and a last name. And, you know, we have this convention where the severed characters have first names and the, the un-severed ones have last names. And the fact that her first name, or last name could also be a first name, you know, it's sort of meant to invoke this idea that she's she's of both worlds a little bit.

👩🏻Duana Taha: Well, let's get to know her a little bit. This is clip number one, please. I think that enjoy each fact equally is, is one of my very, very favorite moments of the show. And then one of my favorite rules. Do you think this one I'm attributing right here Egean? Do you think there's a reason behind it? an easily explained sort of moral reason.

🧔🏻‍♂️Dan Erickson: Yeah, I think there is, I think it's, yeah, I think it's about how sort of all qualities are, must be kept in balance, you know, and we can't let our passion for one thing overwhelmed the other thing. I'm sure Kier could say it more eloquently than that, if you asked him but I I agree that it comes right from him.

👩🏻Duana Taha: The combination of these characters, obviously is brilliant link constructed from you, but I have to assume that in the context of the show, that each severed worker is put together carefully and on purpose. For example, is it an accident that Helly is placed in macro data refinement? even though we have we have a spot open because of Petey? It seems as though you know would would Helly work as well in a different department?

🧔🏻‍♂️Dan Erickson: Right, it's a good question. My thought had been that Helena Eagan was was planning to join. And I think specifically was planning to join Macro Data Refinement. That's not to say that that cause Petey's ousting, I see it more as something where she was sort of waiting for an opening. But I don't think I can say any more beyond that.

👩🏻Duana Taha: We will steer safely away, or not too far away. It was my opinion. But this is just me watching that, when we see Helly try and failed to resign, whether or not it might be possible for somebody to resign? Certainly it doesn't seem like any of our team have ever seen that. Is that a fair thing to say?

🧔🏻‍♂️Dan Erickson: Yeah, I mean, Dylan has that line towards the beginning where he says, you know, good luck getting it approved and Mark's like yeah, they tend to get rejected. I'm not sure if it's never worked. But I think it's it's sort of one of these things where it's like, they just assume it's like, yeah, you know, it's it's like putting a complaint in the complaint box. You'll never hear about it again. Yeah, I don't know if I'd say never. But certainly rarely.

👩🏻Duana Taha: It makes it that much more exciting than the combination of people that you have in there because, for example, Mark is quite well indoctrinated, even though Petey was you know, as far as we know, trying to plot certainly make a map. Certainly, you know, trying to figure things out before he left. So it you kind of go, well, Marks earnestness must have been kind of a nice spot for people to hide behind, or was he trying to tell Mark things that Mark wasn't hearing?

🧔🏻‍♂️Dan Erickson: Yeah, well, it is interesting, I think the line is in there where where Petey says to Mark, you know, you tried to quit, which implies two things like it implies that his resignation request didn't come through, because he is out he didn't get it. And also that, he had sort of a rebel period, that this mark, who we now see who is this kind of, you know, snarky, but overall contented company man, that there was maybe something else before that, and that maybe he had an initial reaction that was a little more akin to how Helly is reacting. And that's something that we sort of talked about is, like, with the, with the flowchart, entry, you know, an entry, welcome that Mark has to do that sort of has all these different. You know, she says this, you have to do this, and you wonder how that was created. And you know, how many people have come in here and freaked out and threatened to kill somebody, that they've got it down to the science of like, well, no, if you just walk them through this way, they'll eventually calm down. So, it's fun, because to me, it speaks at a much longer history. Like you wonder how long they've been doing this to the point where they have it down to a science like that.

👩🏻Duana Taha: Well, we do wonder, Dan, we're just here trying to wear you down.

🧔🏻‍♂️Dan Erickson: If only somebody knew, if only somebody knew. And they could say it, but no, Alas, no one knows.

👩🏻Duana Taha: But the opening that opening sequence in the conference room. It you know, brings up I don't know whether this is an unpopular opinion or not, but in a show full of dread. For my mind, the the biggest dread and the creepiest guy in the place is Milchick. And his beautiful big smile. He has to carry around all the enthusiasm and all the enforcement, is there. I suspect there's more that we don't know about him. Is that true? Or did you have fun writing him in sort of doublespeak What's the origin of Milchick there?

🧔🏻‍♂️Dan Erickson: I don't think that's an unpopular opinion, or it shouldn't be because I completely agree with you. And that I mean, ultimately, you know, 99% of that is owed to Tramell Tillman, who is just this utter force of nature of an actor and created this really thoughtfully created this brilliantly enigmatic character. That could be both the funniest and the scariest thing on screen. You know in the same moment, and the fact that it worked that well, I would say that is the character. I think Tramell well is the actor who transformed the character, maybe more even than any other on the show, in terms of like, that was written as a, not a not a vastly different character but but just a little bit more of a kind of boring by the numbers HR guy, and a lot of the some of the malice was there, because it was, you know, it's sort of intrinsic and everything that that Lumon does this sort of smiling malice, but as soon as Tramell was in there doing his thing, we were sort of like, Oh, that's who he is. That's, that's who Milchick is and so yeah, a lot of it just happened on screen in front of me, and I just got to sit back and watch. But he was always supposed to be sort of this, smiling double speaking face of the company. Who was the one telling you everything was okay, while also telling you with his face that everything is not okay.

👩🏻Duana Taha: And that's kind of the beauty of of getting to do TV on top of everything else is that when you see somebody do something like that, and you realize, Oh, the alchemy it's all coming together here. They have they fit in that last piece of the puzzle. We'll take a little bit of a look at that in our second clip. If we can have that one, please. So that is another one of those scenes that I think could have probably gone on for for half the episode, I would have spent all that time learning facts about about each and every person. Were there any other surprises for you in terms of casting? Or where the characters kind of went? Once their performers were in bed with him?

🧔🏻‍♂️Dan Erickson: Yeah, I mean, all of them to one extent or another? For sure. I mean, I mentioned Tramell. But but every, every actor sort of brought in something that I didn't know was there, And created something that was like, I mean, it's a really weird, unique feeling that that isn't like anything else. When when you when you sort of create half of something, and then the other person comes in and shows you what the other half of it is. And and it's not always what you expect. And in a way, that's scary, but it was so fun and rewarding, because all of these, you know, people did such great things with it. But yeah, like, you know, John Turturro brought in sort of this austere gentlemanly vibe that was in the character a little bit on the, but not, you know, maybe not quite to that extent. And, sort of turned, you know, created the mannerisms of the character. And it was just as soon as he was on screen doing it, we're like, Okay, now we know, Irving, and now as we're like writing the later episodes or rewriting stuff, it becomes easier, because it's like, now we know who Irving is. But yeah, I mean, every every single actor did that, did that in some way.

👩🏻Duana Taha: Well, and you have some huge names that you might be wondering if the names kind of supersede the characters, but they really disappear within them. Patricia Arquette and Christopher Walken, and everybody really was in this type cast. What did you tell to whom? Some of your some of your actors are playing dual roles? Some of them kind of know that or we think they kind of know that and some do not? Was it to case by case or were you quite quite protective over? You know, there's some shows you here but scripts going out with under lock and key. So yeah, what was sort of your philosophy?

🧔🏻‍♂️Dan Erickson: It was it was sort of case by case and I let the actor sort of lead that conversation, because I wanted to help them in whatever way was best for them in sort of crafting the performance. I remember Britt, Britt Lower who plays Helly wanted to know very little. I think that she, she was sort of more of the mind of she wants to know exactly what her character knows. She wants to go on this, scary awakening and journey with Helly, without knowing too much of the context, I forget when we did actually tell her that that, spoiler alert, Helly is an Eagan. I forget when we shared that with her, but I think it was a bit into the process. She, certainly knew by the time that she was like, in episode one she records, this message back to herself, which was actually done a little later in production. But, but yeah, it was different for each actor, I think. And in some cases, we didn't fully know. I mean, we built a lot of these characters knowing that we wouldn't them on the outside this season, barely at all. And so, you know, in some cases, we had, like, a rough idea of, you know, for example, who Dylan is outside, but, but there were, there were gaps of it that we hadn't filled in ourselves yet. So we weren't able to fully have that conversation with Zach, you know, even if, if he had, had wanted to at that point.

👩🏻Duana Taha: Speaking of Dylan, I always assumed that I don't know when you had sort of the the genesis of the waffle party and all that that entails kind of lined up. But, one of the things about it is that you know, you assume that under any other circumstances, a guy like Dylan is going to want to tell everybody every solitary detail, but it's so weird. He actually can't like, nobody would believe him. I don't know, if that was on. Whether that came first or whether there was a version of the waffle party that was less, less?

🧔🏻‍♂️Dan Erickson: Less, less, less of that? Yeah, there there was. I think it may have started as a joke. And I don't I hesitate to say that, because I don't, I really liked what it ended up being but but there was at one point in the room where we were like, well, what if it was sort of this oddly sexual, perverse thing. But then the more I think we talked about it, the more that it kind of made sense, in terms of that, we're in this office where, basically, you're not allowed access to that part of yourself, that part of your psyche, and that, you know, like anything else, Lumon would Lumon would take it and sort of commodify it and use that as a way to sort of, you know, carrot to keep people going the right direction. And, you know, in a world where everything is commodified, that that would sort of be the ultimate prize. And, and so you know, it felt like sort of an appropriately terrifying exploration of what sex would look like, in a world like this. And then also the fact of course, that they are sort of playing out this this weird, bold, image from the from the paintings of Kier taming the Four tempers, and that is, it's like, well, this is the it's like, you can feel those feelings, but they have to come from the company, they have to, they have to be given to you from on high by the company. And so it all just, it was uncomfortable and weird, but it felt, it felt like what Lumon would do, but there were definitely moments that you know, talking through it in the development where we're like, okay, are we seriously doing this though? Are we seriously? That's what the waffle party is. Okay. All right, let's do it.

👩🏻Duana Taha: Just somebody waiting for somebody else to say, maybe we, maybe we shouldn't?

🧔🏻‍♂️Dan Erickson: No one said it. So we're like,

👩🏻Duana Taha: Nobody hated it. But it makes sense because as there are so many different ways that we see that Lumon is, there's a bigger religious parallel than anything else. To my to my eyes, at least from everything from the art to be, to the values, to the the soul bags, or Cobel's shrine. Potato potato. But the compunction statement was the one that really got me that was the one that that felt much less about, you know, that's sort of the the the real sort of crux of when work becomes more than just a workplace where it's the sorryness and the apology is that was that an evolution? Was that something you always knew you wanted to do sort of those religious overtones and the slightly weird sexual rewards as a result?

🧔🏻‍♂️Dan Erickson: Yeah, I mean, different different ideas came at different stages, certainly, but I think that the the religious and in some ways cult-like elements, I think they sort of evolved naturally because I think there is in some case, a weird blurry line between, a corporate culture and a cult. And, and, you know, when you when you are asked to work at a place where they tell you that, you know, your family here, and they give you a list of values of how to behave, and, and in some cases, you may work at a place with this, where there's a cult of personality around the CEO and almost a hero worship around the CEO and this idea that like, well, you know, this this person, it's okay to give yourself and give your labor over to this person, because there's some, this is someone who's going to save the world, you know, and we're not just making coffee here, we're supporting this figure who's going to go on and save the world. I'm not talking about anything specific, of course, but but I had just something I had noticed for for a while that like, there are these weird, the Venn diagram of how like a cult or even a religion will ask you to behave or ask you to think and you know, the way that that that certain workplaces operate, like there is overlap over there, there is overlap there. And and then of course, you know, we did look at different you know, what, like, real scary cults, people are made to, you know, do horrific things and, and the tactics that those people used. And so again, it was kind of it was kind of the slippery slope or the wavy line between those things that I was interested in, and you know, how Lumon could sort of bring, bring all those things together in a really spooky way?

👩🏻Duana Taha: Well, like all cults, they are convinced they're doing the right thing, right. Like there's, I assumed that somewhere in the high up, Lumon brass that somewhere in the Egean's they believe that what they're doing is, is helping someone.

🧔🏻‍♂️Dan Erickson: Yes,

👩🏻Duana Taha: Probably? Yeah. Yeah.

🧔🏻‍♂️Dan Erickson: I, well, wait, I don't want to confirm anything. I shouldn't. But no, I'll say in the vaguest terms, that that that was something we talked about, and that we thought was important was just this, like, you know, nobody is really evil for the sake of evil. There are people who are greedy and selfish and don't really have morals, per se, that come out in their behavior. But, it's more interesting, I think, if this big, scary shadowy conglomerate corporate villain actually believes in something twisted, though it is like that's going to create for more, interesting conflicts and more interesting sort of philosophical debates as, as our heroes tried to figure out and then, take down what this company is trying to do. So yeah, we, in coming up with, like, what their ultimate ethos is, and their ultimate goal is, we tried to make something that sort of made a moral sense, like that made some moral sense, even if it was really skewed and scary.

👩🏻Duana Taha: Right, that for somebody, if you accept X, then also Y and then they think, yeah, well, speaking of moral quandaries and complex things, we're gonna be going to questions in just a couple of minutes. So please send them in. If you have questions for Dan about the show. And, you know, see if you can get around those those laser filters and Apple darts. In the meantime, though, a couple more questions for you. There's so much lore here, since there's so much depth. I wonder whether at this point in your press tour, whether there's anything that you desperately wish somebody would ask that nobody has yet?

🧔🏻‍♂️Dan Erickson: Oh, that's a good question. Um I mean, no one, no one has asked, no one has asked me to take offense to this, how severance might be used in like, the process of getting in shape, or getting healthy, or, dieting or exercising. And I just want to say I think that there are some maybe really scary answers potentially, to that question. So that's something that maybe, maybe moving ahead will will add to the discourse.

👩🏻Duana Taha: Sure, because I can see how you know if you if you have the technology, right, that somebody Lumon might say might Want to expand into? Yeah, that's a real that's a real market there.

🧔🏻‍♂️Dan Erickson: It's never your workout. If you could just, you know, it's okay. I'm gonna do we're gonna do three hours in the gym now.

👩🏻Duana Taha: Yeah, I don't I don't think my answer is supposed to be sign me up. But you know, I can I can see where it would where it would turn heads for sure. Yeah. But okay, that's, that's really interesting that there are. Are there other places that you're debating whether Lumon can go, obviously we saw Gabby and the childbirth sort of conundrum that happened with the with she and Mark sister so we know that is beginning to be adopted elsewhere. But are there other places that have things that maybe people could outsource?

🧔🏻‍♂️Dan Erickson: I think that list is endless, which I think is why ultimately more than anything, that's why this was a TV show and not a not a film or a mini series. Because like, early in the process, like I spoke to my manager, like format for this and it was ultimately the fact that there are so many applications for this technology that that that's what really made us want to keep it going. Because yeah, I think that you know, Gabby in the birthing center, you know, that's really scary, the more you scratch at it, but it just opens the door to other things. It's like almost anything that you don't like, could theoretically be severed away. And I think that that just opens the door to a really cool world. A really a really interesting world.

👩🏻Duana Taha: Yeah, especially when you think about the what haven't we thought about, who are we already seeing. Because it's not like people for severed are wearing any sort of indication just yet. So you know.

🧔🏻‍♂️Dan Erickson: "Innie"-casion? it was,

👩🏻Duana Taha: Say that last one again?

🧔🏻‍♂️Dan Erickson: I made a joke. I said "innie"-occasion.

👩🏻Duana Taha: Oh.

🧔🏻‍♂️Dan Erickson: I apologize.

👩🏻Duana Taha: No, not at all. I'm just realizing that my own "outie" at this moment not somewhere, you know, relaxing and, and laughing at me.

🧔🏻‍♂️Dan Erickson: We're both at work. So we are technically both in "innie" form right now.

👩🏻Duana Taha: Yeah, it's and it's nice to know that. I guess maybe this is the entry point, right that there's another me having a wonderful glamorous life out there. It's like Instagram, but all the time. So we have a question from Adam, who asks, did you have any input in the insanely detailed driven set design and prop creation process? Or did that come from Ben Stiller's meticulous tendencies? or a third option that's not in the binary, I guess.

🧔🏻‍♂️Dan Erickson: Right. Right. Well, thank you for the question. actor Adam Scott, you could have just called me but I appreciate it. No, yeah, it was, some of that was in the, the script, I mean, that the script was definitely describe the sort of sterile maze like hallways, and I think the script did specify, like MDR being having these really big for these really weird proportions of this big, wide space, and then the small kind of cubicle sort of island in the middle. But beyond that, like the vast majority of it was, was, you know, stuff, like just meetings that we had with with with Ben and with Jeremy Hindle. And Jessica Gagné, who was our, our DP, and, you know, many, many others who were involved with sort of creating the overall look of it. So it was a mix. I mean, I think the basics of it were there but then it got really, it got really fleshed out through the communal process.

👩🏻Duana Taha: I'm assuming that you were on set most of the time if not all the time. So how much of your life would you say that you spent watching people walk through hallways.

🧔🏻‍♂️Dan Erickson: All of it, for a while. I mean, that was all I was doing because it was in the pandemic so it was that and then I would I would go home and I but most of the yeah most of the space around us, the funny thing is we had the the set that had this, weird endless tiers of white hallways. And then in the soundstage. Beyond that were even more endless white hallways that like didn't look too dissimilar from from the set. So there was this really weird, you know. And then yeah, I would be sitting watching the monitors. So it's like there's the world of the show. And then it's really happening out here. It got very confusing after time, for a while, what was real and what was not.

👩🏻Duana Taha: Yeah, I just I started thinking about, you know, if people were called just for walking days, you know that you could, you could see your actors just suiting up for four or five hours at a time of just hallways, happy hallways, curious hallways, alarmed hallways?

🧔🏻‍♂️Dan Erickson: Every kind.

👩🏻Duana Taha: Every kind and more to come. Here is, there's a great question from Sarah, who writes: Some of the "innie" vernacular is just a little bit off, for example, eager lemur, or Dewey mouth are both quite understandable, but a bit jarring. How did you come up with that linguistic vibe?

🧔🏻‍♂️Dan Erickson: Yeah, we sort of wanted to give a sense that there was, it's like an insular world, it's like, this is a town where the past was blocked off, you know, back in the 30s. And so these people sort of, created their own vernacular and their own language a little bit. You know, it is it is just such a cut off world that we wanted to make it feel like it had its own culture a little bit. But that also might have just been a justification for me to like, write goofy stuff that I thought was funny. In the moment, I didn't know that was sort of the language and the logic kind of informed each other mutually in that in that case.

👩🏻Duana Taha: There's obviously we know that the the "innies" have no access to tech, or the any sort of online world or anything like that. But it seems as though even outside the, you know, the cars seem a little bit older, that the, the houses are not super decked out. So is that just in the the world of Kier? The town? Or does it extend further? Like, is this sort of Lumon world philosophy?

🧔🏻‍♂️Dan Erickson: Right. Um, it's a, it's a really interesting question that I don't have a total firm answer to because, yeah, to some extent, it is just a slightly stylized world. But in another way, I mean, one thing we talked a lot about was giving the sense that, even when you're not in the company, like even when you're not down in the basement, you're still in Lumon, in a way, let like that, you know, you're not in the belly of the beast, but you still might be within its grasp, you know, if you're out in the town, and that, in a way, in a way that's maybe more in than we realize the town, the town really is an extension of the company, and in some ways, so, once we had established that, the inside had this aesthetic of being a little bit out of space and time, and sort of a little bit intentionally disorienting and space and time where you couldn't, they don't know where and where they are, or exactly when they are. But but that some of that sort of bled into the outside so that, like, we never specify the exact year in the show, we never specify the exact state. And so there's, we wanted to maintain some of that. Now, if we were to go to New York City in this world, Would it? be similarly sort of quirky and strange? I honestly don't know yet. We don't. I don't have a I don't have an answer. But I think it's a really, it's a interesting question in regard to the world building.

👩🏻Duana Taha: Well, and one more that, largely for me is there's very specific language all the time around, some people live in the town of Kier. And it's specified more than once some people do. Is that true? Are there people who live outside of the town who who make it to to Lumon?

🧔🏻‍♂️Dan Erickson: Like, like people who work at Lumon but don't live in in the city of Kier proper? I think so.

👩🏻Duana Taha: Okay.

🧔🏻‍♂️Dan Erickson: In theory, yeah. Most of them probably live in Kier but you could have someone from like the wider county area.

👩🏻Duana Taha: That would pass the screening process if they if they weren't, you know, too immersed in a in the outside world.

🧔🏻‍♂️Dan Erickson: Good question. It's a good question.

👩🏻Duana Taha: I mean, a little bit to put you on the spot, but mostly not. We have a question from Jeff wants to know who are your favorite short story and novel writers and have any of them fed into your conception or style of Severance?

🧔🏻‍♂️Dan Erickson: Hmm, that's a really good question. And I always freeze up the moment anybody asks me something like that. And then later I'm like, Oh, I should have said this person. I mean, Vonnegut is an easy choice, and certainly was inspirational, you know, somebody that I read when I was, in my early 20s, and got obsessed with and informed a lot of my language and style and tone. I like to think, and then, like, George Saunders is someone I really like. Yeah, I mean, those would be the first that come to mind. And then I mean, there's, you know, you know, people everyone knows, it's, you know, Kafka and people like that, who definitely made their way into the tone.

👩🏻Duana Taha: And I would assume too that, the same goes for people who ask about TV influences. Everybody knows when you're working, you have no time to watch anything. But in between, brief hiatuses, or, or whatnot, what have you, what have you enjoyed?

🧔🏻‍♂️Dan Erickson: Oh, man.

👩🏻Duana Taha: Whether similar or far away.

🧔🏻‍♂️Dan Erickson: Recent stuff?

👩🏻Duana Taha: Like real show. Yeah. Like when you were talking, for example, about the hero worship of a CEO. I thought, Oh, well, you've also seen the "Drop out" then. But, you know, what have you been enjoying in terms of? Yeah, just other stuff that sort of in the same in the same yearly demo as Severance that's been in the kind of the same zeitgeist.

🧔🏻‍♂️Dan Erickson: I did. I love the "Drop out." I thought it was great. It's, it's so it's interesting to be making the show at a time when there are a couple of those like, true life, you know, fraudulent CEO, miniseries happening. I mean, there's, you know, there's that there's, "WeCrashed", there's others, but I think that I also really, I love all those shows, and I also absolutely am obsessed with "Succession" I think is terrific. And I think like at our, you know, at our highest aspiration, we would be sort of another side of the coin of because I think people are really interested right now, in, in those, big huge capitalists doing terrible things, stories. And I think that that's because there's a lot of people questioning, like, Oh my god, is this system really benefiting any of us? Is this, you know, is this something where corruption is just able to run rampant and why I think that shows like that are looking at that. And sort of, but you know, we're seeing sort of the CEO side of it, you know, where something like "Severance," obviously, it's different tonally and genre wise. But, you know, it is a story that I think, looks at some of those same themes, but you know, we're with the workers on this one. And we're, you know, we're down and the focus is basically the effects that this system has have having on these people who are trying to live their lives. So I think it's really exciting to be it's a really exciting time to be making TV and especially making TV about work and about, you know, the system that employs us, because I think that that's something a lot of people are talking about right now. I also love "YellowJackets." I thought "YellowJackets" was terrific. I thought it was really scary.

👩🏻Duana Taha: It was scary and delicious. And Bart and Ashley, the creators were here with us doing a talk a few months ago, and yeah, they're amazing.

🧔🏻‍♂️Dan Erickson: Yeah. I'm fanboying over that, because that that was a that was a really cool show.

👩🏻Duana Taha: Yeah, the delicious also, but, yeah, to your earlier point. I am not the creator of this term. But I really enjoyed the somebody said we're really in the middle of a "scam-demic" television, you know, starting with "Fire fest", so yeah, they're right.

🧔🏻‍♂️Dan Erickson: "Fire fest" kind of kick it off. Yeah.

👩🏻Duana Taha: Then it was like, well, like we need more we just want we just want to cringe more.

🧔🏻‍♂️Dan Erickson: Yeah.

👩🏻Duana Taha: We have a question from Spanic, I hope I'm pronouncing your name correctly. Who writes: Was it your original intention to write episode nine as a breaking away from the traditional ABC screenplay structure of the first eight episodes?

🧔🏻‍♂️Dan Erickson: That's a that's a really good question. Kind of, but not really. I'm not not consciously like. We weren't like, you know, screw you "Seinfeld", we're gonna we're gonna go our own way on this last one. But it was more like we wanted to do something where we could have done all the structural work of sort of setting up every single Domino and then just let it tip. And we wanted the last episode to feel extremely visceral and fast. And like, you know, we were experiencing it in the same crazy confused state as the "innies" were. So I think that that sort of naturally led to something that that didn't feel as sort of rigorously or carefully structured as the previous episodes. So yeah, again, it wasn't that it wasn't totally conscious. But I think that I think that we got there because we wanted this to feel like just a absolute visceral kind of panic show.

👩🏻Duana Taha: Speaking up, we talked about kind of the zeitgeist of work shows that you're in, but also, in the zeitgeist of it used to be that shows like this had eight episodes, maybe six, maybe 10. Now we're in this odd numbered sequence was that? Did it? Did it keep you up at night to go? Yeah, we're gonna end on episode nine.

🧔🏻‍♂️Dan Erickson: Yeah, just the OCD. You're like, Oh, yeah, come on. Yeah, no, we were. And I've said this before, I'm pretty sure I can say this, we were originally going to do 10 episodes. And part of that was, you know, over the course of the pandemic, like we had to sort of tighten some things in order, for budgetary or production reasons. But we also just, I think we reached a point where it felt like the right number, let like it just sort of, in order to tell everything we wanted to tell at the pace, we wanted to tell it, you know, we got to this point, it was like this, this just feels right. So you know, we could have, we could have pushed to keep it at 10. But I think that we we sort of had this instinct that it was, this was this was the place to get out.

👩🏻Duana Taha: I think it was a good call the cry of outrage when you realize it's the last one and where it stops is, is sort of heard throughout. So I think well done. We've got five minutes time for just a couple of questions. And Megan wants to know, what was the development process for the show? Who was the first person to say yes.

🧔🏻‍♂️Dan Erickson: Um, wow. Well, the first person to say yes, was my manager, Ben Blake, who was extremely supportive again, I was driving for Postmates when he took me on. And and he saw something special in this in this show, and really, really helped me sort of get things moving. This publication called the "Bloodlist" said yes, they were they were, you know, they're a genre specific take on on something like the blacklist where they, they take on produce scripts that people are into, but no one's made. And they sort of elevate them, which is, you know, they've been doing for years is great. And then yet, Jackie Cohen, who's a producer at Red hour was the first person to actually like, read the script and be like, I think we can make this like, I think we could make this and then she brought it to Ben. And then, you know, once once Ben said, yes, then a lot of other people said, yes. But yeah, Ben, I mean, the really exciting thing was in meeting with Ben, how, immediately, like thoughtful, he was about it. And you know, sort of the opposite of this celebrity who comes in and sort of slaps their name on something. It was like, right away, he was like, Okay, we need to, you know, if we're going to do this, we need to get into this and this, and we need to figure all this stuff out. And I was very happy to do so I was like, Yeah, let's hit the ground running. But yeah, it was it was it was a long time. I mean, it took it took from when our first version the pilot to where it got it was like almost 10 years.

👩🏻Duana Taha: And, you know, the that's that's the reality of the quote unquote, overnight success, right? It takes a little bit sometimes. Yeah, exactly.

🧔🏻‍♂️Dan Erickson: "Many hungry nights."

👩🏻Duana Taha: I think, as a as I guess, a final question there. So over 10 years, there's going to be so many permutations and notes and versions and things of that nature. And now you're in the position of not only did you make it, not only is it a complete critical success, but you get to make more. Is there one element, you mentioned a little hint of one, is there one thing that you sort of had to leave by the wayside for space or time or availability that you're excited to get back to in season two or subsequent seasons.

🧔🏻‍♂️Dan Erickson: Yeah, sure, there are a lot. And I don't think I can say anything about any of them. But, yeah, there's there's definitely plenty of, you know, Ben is a very, he wanted us to make sure that we were giving the show room to breathe and giving the characters room to feel organic, and that we weren't rushing from one thriller beat to another. So, you know, there's plenty of story, that we had talked about first for season one that that may well end up in season two. Because, you know, but ultimately, the most exciting thing is just what, what's going to happen to these characters that we've come to love and really care about?

👩🏻Duana Taha: And are they going to be able to find the goats again?

🧔🏻‍♂️Dan Erickson: I mean, I, It's "chekhov's goat", you know, you can't put a goat on screen and then do nothing with it. But who knows?

👩🏻Duana Taha: There's no greater promise than that. Dan Erickson. Thank you so so much for being with us. Here at "VIFF creator talks." This is absolutely fantastic. Thank you.

🧔🏻‍♂️Dan Erickson: It's been so much fun. Thank you so much for having me and everybody. This has been great.